Post by daivid on Aug 30, 2010 1:04:21 GMT
from the old site:
* Patrick on October 20, 2009 at 1:46am
Well, I'm new here, but was led to this site after discovering the quiet career of Mr. Bath in the hobby and am most curious as to how he resolved combats in his game system. It has been written that Mr. Bath essentially crafted a rather simple set of rules which allowed him to run very playable games without bookkeeping to interrupt the action, which is what I'm looking for when I finally have what I need to mount a battle of my own. I'm wondering if he used dice and, if so, if Mr. Bath's game mechanics could perhaps be adapted for a diceless system.
Reply by Doug on October 20, 2009 at 3:09am
Most of his rules used volley firing - 5 figures per dice (d6) thrown. The result are casualties, adjusted as follows: At long range 3 are deducted, Medium range 2 are deducted, and at close range one is deducted.
Melees or hand to hand combat included the first two ranks of each unit.
2 rounds of combat, and replacements move up to replace casualties.
Infantry count as 1 point each, cavalry 2 each.
One dice thrown per 5 points. eg. 10 infantry = 10 points. 10 cavalry equal 20 points.
Attackers add 1 to each dice total on first round of combat only.
Total up dice throws and divide in half. These are the casualy points. Remember it takes 2 points to remove a cavalryman.
There are many more situations covered but that is largely the core of fighting. Very simple but they work.
There are also morale rules and rallying rules
Also in firing combat, and melees, there are rules for officer casualties and saving throws, which reduce casualties based on the shields and armour the target figures have.
Tony Bath's ancient rules are in Don Featherstone's "Wargames" ISBN 0 09 064901 x - this book has been recently reprinted.
*
Reply by Patrick on October 20, 2009 at 4:29am
Interesting. What were his point-ratings for missile troops?
Reply by Doug on October 20, 2009 at 12:23pm
There were several versions of his ancient rules. The one I paraphrased from is an early set from before 1960. I don't believe he did a specific points system for troops. The points were just a way of calculating melees. He gamed a lot with Donald Featherstone who has published a basic points system for troops. I don't know what influence Tony Bath had on them, or if they were his creation in the first place.
*
Reply by Patrick on October 20, 2009 at 1:28pm
I'll have to try to find the Featherstone book then because I am most interested in his solutions. I suppose what I'm seeking for my own games is to achieve a synthesis between Bath and Wells; to have something I can play out with a minimum of fuss and emjoy an entertaining round with my armies. Also to have something I can introduce my young son to when he gets just a bit older and be able to play out a battle without it getting too bogged down in accountancy and rule interpretations and thus lead to extreme frustration for him.
Reply by Daivid on October 20, 2009 at 9:58pm
There is point system published in an early Slingshot for the version of his rules
that served for a time as the official rule set for the society of Ancints.
It is notable for underpricing Elephants.
Reply by Scott Johnson on December 5, 2009 at 4:33am
My younger brother and I used Tony Bath's rules as the "core" set of rules for some 20 years. Naturally we made a number of amendments to them, but the essence remained. One of our amendments concerned a points system based both on troop type (e.g. heavy infantry), but also a I-III level based upon nationality. So for example, a heavy infantry unit of Romans might cost 20 points, a heavy infantry unit of Gauls would cost 15.
Rules are frustrating by their very nature. I'd advise keep it simple. Tony Bath did that pretty well, but there will always be "discussions" over interpretations.
Good luck.
* Patrick on October 20, 2009 at 1:46am
Well, I'm new here, but was led to this site after discovering the quiet career of Mr. Bath in the hobby and am most curious as to how he resolved combats in his game system. It has been written that Mr. Bath essentially crafted a rather simple set of rules which allowed him to run very playable games without bookkeeping to interrupt the action, which is what I'm looking for when I finally have what I need to mount a battle of my own. I'm wondering if he used dice and, if so, if Mr. Bath's game mechanics could perhaps be adapted for a diceless system.
Reply by Doug on October 20, 2009 at 3:09am
Most of his rules used volley firing - 5 figures per dice (d6) thrown. The result are casualties, adjusted as follows: At long range 3 are deducted, Medium range 2 are deducted, and at close range one is deducted.
Melees or hand to hand combat included the first two ranks of each unit.
2 rounds of combat, and replacements move up to replace casualties.
Infantry count as 1 point each, cavalry 2 each.
One dice thrown per 5 points. eg. 10 infantry = 10 points. 10 cavalry equal 20 points.
Attackers add 1 to each dice total on first round of combat only.
Total up dice throws and divide in half. These are the casualy points. Remember it takes 2 points to remove a cavalryman.
There are many more situations covered but that is largely the core of fighting. Very simple but they work.
There are also morale rules and rallying rules
Also in firing combat, and melees, there are rules for officer casualties and saving throws, which reduce casualties based on the shields and armour the target figures have.
Tony Bath's ancient rules are in Don Featherstone's "Wargames" ISBN 0 09 064901 x - this book has been recently reprinted.
*
Reply by Patrick on October 20, 2009 at 4:29am
Interesting. What were his point-ratings for missile troops?
Reply by Doug on October 20, 2009 at 12:23pm
There were several versions of his ancient rules. The one I paraphrased from is an early set from before 1960. I don't believe he did a specific points system for troops. The points were just a way of calculating melees. He gamed a lot with Donald Featherstone who has published a basic points system for troops. I don't know what influence Tony Bath had on them, or if they were his creation in the first place.
*
Reply by Patrick on October 20, 2009 at 1:28pm
I'll have to try to find the Featherstone book then because I am most interested in his solutions. I suppose what I'm seeking for my own games is to achieve a synthesis between Bath and Wells; to have something I can play out with a minimum of fuss and emjoy an entertaining round with my armies. Also to have something I can introduce my young son to when he gets just a bit older and be able to play out a battle without it getting too bogged down in accountancy and rule interpretations and thus lead to extreme frustration for him.
Reply by Daivid on October 20, 2009 at 9:58pm
There is point system published in an early Slingshot for the version of his rules
that served for a time as the official rule set for the society of Ancints.
It is notable for underpricing Elephants.
Reply by Scott Johnson on December 5, 2009 at 4:33am
My younger brother and I used Tony Bath's rules as the "core" set of rules for some 20 years. Naturally we made a number of amendments to them, but the essence remained. One of our amendments concerned a points system based both on troop type (e.g. heavy infantry), but also a I-III level based upon nationality. So for example, a heavy infantry unit of Romans might cost 20 points, a heavy infantry unit of Gauls would cost 15.
Rules are frustrating by their very nature. I'd advise keep it simple. Tony Bath did that pretty well, but there will always be "discussions" over interpretations.
Good luck.